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Post subject:
 Posted: May 05, 2011 - 03:12 PM
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Respectable
Joined: Jun 27, 2010
Posts: 135
Status: Offline
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Forcing people to craft?....ok my final word on that matter:
I agree with the original proposal.
Greetings |
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Post subject:
Posted: May 05, 2011 - 07:44 PM
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Noble
Joined: Oct 16, 2009
Posts: 958
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| ArduisdeGispard wrote: |
Another indicator, that I am right here is, that the whole thread started with the statement, that rangers need WC 12 to make GM Longbows. If there wouldn¥t be the general need for that weapon, why is WC 12, which is also granting the ability to craft Bows of speed, so important? |
Actually WC 12 is for GM Shorts, and WC 14 is for GM longs. WC 12 is just the minimum requirement if one wants to use GM bows. That is what makes it important. WC 12 is kind of a launching point for those who want to embark on the mission to get 14. I also haven't ever heard of rangers making magic bows on any sort of regular basis, and I am friends most of those who would be qualified to. I don't believe that is the motivation behind getting to this level, especially given that the fail rate of any item at the level you acquire it, is far too great to be wasting essences of speed on. Not many people have 4 essences lying around to try and get one bow of speed made. |
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Lady of Dragon's Gate
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Post subject:
Posted: May 06, 2011 - 05:33 AM
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Honorable
Joined: Feb 05, 2009
Posts: 405
Status: Offline
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I have to state that if you have a separate idea to the one posted in this thread please feel free to post it in your own thread. I am against the arrow idea and maybe if you posted the idea in another thread it wouldn't be clouding itself in this thread and this thread wouldn't be clouding your idea.
Convince me with your own topic 
The idea stated in this thread is to allow players who cant make a certain item, be able to repair it at half its level. Back on topic please. |
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Post subject:
Posted: May 06, 2011 - 07:53 AM
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Royalty
Joined: Jan 24, 2007
Posts: 1117
Location: World of Warcraft
Status: Offline
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| ArduisdeGispard wrote: |
Another indicator, that I am right here is, that the whole thread started with the statement, that rangers need WC 12 to make GM Longbows. If there wouldn¥t be the general need for that weapon, why is WC 12, which is also granting the ability to craft Bows of speed, so important? |
Take a deep breath. Look at starting post. Read it. Read it twice more. Think for some time....
Yes.
And now please quote the text, where I say that GM long bow needs lvl 12 woodcrafting.
Obviously nowhere. Yes... Just another urban myth. |
_________________
I'M A DRUID AND THUS I'M OVERPOWERED! >:C
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Post subject:
Posted: May 06, 2011 - 12:16 PM
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Respectable
Joined: Jun 27, 2010
Posts: 135
Status: Offline
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With my statement, I agree with the original post, I intended to end any comments on that thread from my side, but when the "Feud Glove" is thrown at me, I can¥t resist to pick it up and accept the challenge. Therefore I will comment by quoting the said statements how I understood them and tell my opinion.
Repairing weapons and armor should take 1/2 of the skill needed to craft it (example - GM katana repairable with lvl 5 blacksmithing).
- Basically a nice idea, but crafting a sword is pretty complicated. See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blacksmith
Therefore without the knowledge how to manufacture something, it seems a bit hard to understand for me, that such items can be repaired at less effort = knowledge/experience/teaching
I hope it could be easily implemented without huge coding.
Something I cannot comment, since I am not a coder/programmer
________________________
LOTS OF BABBLING:
Games should be fun. We play games to have fun. Not everyone is hardcore gamer, there are plenty casuals.
- Agreed. Hardcoregamers in Oberin might be rare and the casuals might be the majority, but I don¥t know the exact numbers. Therefore personally agreed.
Now look at our plates:
1) Rogue requires BS 8,
2) fighter requires BS 10,
3) ranger requires BS 10 and WC 12,
to be competitive.
- Competetive compared on what scale? Looking at long-time veterans and comparing it with oneself? The felt/personal impression, that class levelling is too slow or not optimized without employing the items, arms and armor, associated with the mentioned crafting skills?
Without this you are left behind.
- Left behind at or to what? Too slow levelling, taking too much time for a kill/success, the need to cope with lower level monsters which are not X levels above your own (which means according to general gossip/assumption/estimation better/faster class/skill raising?
Especially as ranger skill < gear (compare ranger with GM long bow (I was able to solo kill SSs) and ranger with normal bow).
- I understand this statement, that you were either able to already use a GM long bow, self crafted or given by somebody else, or monsters became tougher, so your usual weapon LB or SB, which seems at this point to be not a GM version, became less effective. Either way that statement leaves the impression, that GM versions make a great difference. And again I get the impression, that a GM weapon is absolutely necessary to "level effectively".
That also means mining, lumberjacking (and especially on low levels these are a horror).
- Totally agreed. Anybody who starts at lvl 1 in either skill can tell a story about it. And it¥s no fun clicking and clicking and clicking... But like already said, I ranted about it in the past and was told, in-game and on the forums, it is part of the game. And to throw in my ideas about broadheads, why are they a "hell" to everybody, when they can be obtained in shops, like shafts and feathers? Surely they would mena a time saviour to any BS levelling, But why should fighters be "forced" to keep lumberjacking/woodcrafting when they only need it for their weapons? And rangers, like other classes, can buy their needed resources for improving WC skill, while on the other side BS has to be levelled step by step. And surely every rangers makes his/her arrows out of lumbered logs and shot down Harpy feathers. Sure. No further comment on that staement.
If you are hardcore gamer, you can get BS 8 (the very basic for independent play) in 3 days, maybe less? No idea, I did it in 3 days, while I was hardcore player still. If you are casual and you play for 1 or 2 hours a day it will take much longer.... And yeah... You want to spare your precious 2 free hours per day clicking - crafting...
- I can¥t and won¥t comment on the 3-day time length needed, since playing for 72 hours without a break is up to everbody individually. Anyways if you did it that way, fine. But I agree on the fact, that spending 2 hours hunting is more fun than 2 hours of nerve-wrecking crafting clicks.On the other side you also have to make a decision, being hardcore gamer or casual, how to spend your time online. So if crafting for longer periods is keeping you away from "becoming effective", the implication I get from saying that WC 12 is the basic need for being competetive, than chatting/conversing with others is also a "waste", since it seems more fruitable to spend that time in crafting or hunting. Or is it only useful, when the conversation is in the context of trading?
Now if you enter the game as a demo in empty Lerilin and you play for plate (theoretically you can buy your first armor set for one use only if you gather enough gold from ants and skellies)...
Just read the answer from Immolated, points No. 1 & 2
http://oberin.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=2680&highlight=arguis
Hmm.. so new players are to be expected to have a full set of plates right from character creation? No? Than killing ants and skellies is useless or too time consuming? No again? I quite can¥t comprehend the deeper meaning behind that statement..
Or even if there are people and they tell you to do thousands of clicks just to be able to normally play (without running around and telling people - please, repair my armor!!! - every 15 minutes and if you find anyone actually). That¥s horrible.
It¥s horrible. Period.
- Nearly every veteran player I met, and I can¥t recall one instance here, rejected to be helpful and repaired the armor of a low-level plate wearer. And if it means too much hassle/effort, to ask somebody for that favour, than I don¥t know. Or is it totally absolutely necessary to wear plates from the starting point? Just look into the discussion about the recent armor restrictions. Not a bad idea either, but helpful for beginners? I leave that point in that discussion
My idea allows people with lvl 4 blacksmithing to repair basic armor and weapons, it would only force people whom do not want to spent weeks crafting to repair GM katana to level on lvl 5 BS and GM short bow on lvl 6 woodcrafting, while you would still need those high level people to make you these items.
- Oh is there a great effort to achieve BS lvl 5 or 6? When like said BS 8 is done in 3 days, and not knowing here which was the starting level, how does it suddenly take "weeks crafting to repair GM katana to level 5 BS ..". Probably my english is failing me here, or is the "want to spend weeks" meant towards the fact, that people intend to go further and start crafting those items? Withou offence meant, but I don¥t fully understand that statement.
And anyways, who provides the basic item for repairing? Some helpful folk, who did all this clicking to make such GM weapons, who voluntarily did it for some personal reason or probably the game mechanics or any other reason valid to him. So to have the GM variants somebody is "forced" to spend that time and be noble enough to share his efforts with others, while the more "lazy" ones (=not "willing" to craft) spend their time repeatedly clicking on monsters. It¥s everybodies own decision how to interpret that and act according to his feelings/intentions or whatever he/she seems approbiate.
________________________
BEFORE YOU SAY NO:
Can you imagine you would log into World of Warcraft first time and game would tell you: no adventuring n00b! first few weeks only clicks so you can repair your stuff! You don¥t like it?!? You don¥t have time for it? You don¥t think game should be your second job? LEAVE! WE DON¥T WANT YOUR KIND AROUND HERE! WE ARE HARDCORE NERDS! CLICK OR DIE! Nyaaaah! 
- What means "no adventuring"? Is it defined by creating a char, get the approbiate/best craftable equipement and start raiding a dungeon on your first log-in? It is for everybody different how the term "adventure" is defined, and killing 200 ants in a row or spend hours crushing bones on a cem might not seem like an adventure, but I understood RPG¥s, P&P and MMO¥s alike, the way that you grow into the world. And this is not only achieved/defined by your class level and abilites, which are merely game tools to resolve critical situations. And Oberin is not, intended or not, meant for powergamers. Surely everybody loves to raise in level and might, a motivation and incentive inherent to human psychology. I understood Oberin that it is a slow raising game not solely focused on levels, killing and being Joe Powermonger. Or did I understand the first entry/introductional comment on the web-site here wrong? Surely everybody plays different, sets different personal goals and intend to draw something different out of his play experience.
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WHAT WOULD IT MEAN:
1) It would help casuals.
2) It would help all newcomers.
3) It could slightly hurt people with high crafting (if they would share these items with others) - question is if it¥s really hurting - are you elitist?
To 1) and 2): Probably. But does it keep people in the game on a long term? Surely a seperate debate/discussion about the long-term motivation of Oberin might be helpful, and was done several times already IIRC, and several topics regarding the problem of keeping/helping beginners new players are present. So no need for me to start discusing it here in length.
To 3): If such a change is slightly hurting or a major disaster can only be answered by everybody individually. But the question if it is "really hurting" is easier to answer. And I know it¥s not polite to answer a question with a counter question: Is it really justified to give stuff away, when it seems that people receiving them are not willing to step in the same path and start the same effort to help others, since they can rely on the veterans to play that part? Surely it is in the spirit of the game to be helpful, especially to beginners, and we are a small community where you get to know many people fast.So any new player is welcomed and many say that right after they receive their goodies from the people around. But does that mean, he gets the newbie bonus for the rest of his career? I am not sure about that.Personally I feel more and more tired of teaching new players and then see them being in the game not tto long. But what everybody else feels/does is up to them.
Am I elitist? NO! I was also helped by many players before I reached that magic BS lvl (to be competetive). I also felt bad every time I had to ask for a repair. But, and that might be personal opinion here, I had the desire to repay others by increasing my BS to lvl 8. And I did it so many times, that I feel I repaied my "dues". Giving GM stuff away just for the sake of being nice to somebody else and than be expected to act like that all the time? Everybody has to answer that for himself personally.
I think this idea is reasonable.
I think this idea could possibly be implemented without weeks of coding - but I might be wrong on this part.
- Personally spoken? I respect your opinion, but in my point of view? No and the coding subject is left to be answered by Jinker.
Spoken in general: The broadhead idea was intended as a "short-cut", and yes also for fighters and rogues, so every lumbered log goes into WC without the need to craft useless maces. And fighters/rogues still have to devastate the countryside for logs to improve their needed secondary skill. But Sophina said already, that crafting maces helps the WC skill, so why the need for lowering the repair requirements of weapons?
But one little remark still keeps me wondering, and yes I misinterpreted WC 12 for crafting GM long bows and not short bows:
Why do rangers need BS 10? For repairing/crafting the GM Katana in case the opponents close in for Melee? Hmm...Does anybody really expect a comment on that?
Greetings |
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Post subject:
Posted: May 06, 2011 - 01:36 PM
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Honorable
Joined: Feb 05, 2009
Posts: 405
Status: Offline
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| ArduisdeGispard wrote: |
Spoken in general: The broadhead idea was intended as a "short-cut", and yes also for fighters and rogues, so every lumbered log goes into WC without the need to craft useless maces. And fighters/rogues still have to devastate the countryside for logs to improve their needed secondary skill. But Sophina said already, that crafting maces helps the WC skill, so why the need for lowering the repair requirements of weapons?
But one little remark still keeps me wondering, and yes I misinterpreted WC 12 for crafting GM long bows and not short bows:
Why do rangers need BS 10? For repairing/crafting the GM Katana in case the opponents close in for Melee? Hmm...Does anybody really expect a comment on that?
Greetings |
I agree that there are many things to be fixed, my statement about the lowering of dura was literally a compromise. I'm not for either idea (Repairing idea and Broadhead arrows) In my opinion the items that really matter are the rings you wear with your armour, I have enough Holy Daggers and WHoPs to last me forever, and you always find goody weps in the forest. So for a ranger, i think its important to get BS 8 and WC 9. GM bows are only useful for soloing SS, any other creature can be killed with a standard long solo (disregarding the behemoth creatures, SGs, IGs, MGs and dragons) even then i can kill an SS with a standard long it just takes 5-10 mins longer.
Rangers aren't about killing things fast, that's not their purpose. They are a support class that can be used as an offensive class with melee. As well as this they are for scouting forests. i think if a ranger wants to solo an SS in 5 min as opposed to 10-15 min then they will deserve that when they get WC 14 (If they get WC 14). In all of Oberin i think the Ranger class is the only real balanced class. its hard to abuse their abilities. every veteran player knows the glitches associated with the ranger class but that will be fixed when jinker sees fit/can find a way to fix it.
Of course you can always ask an older player to make you a GM bow and have fun with SS that way.
Greetings~  |
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Post subject:
Posted: Oct 23, 2011 - 08:51 AM
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(demo)
Joined: May 02, 2011
Posts: 3
Status: Offline
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| ArduisdeGispard wrote: |
Forcing people to craft?....ok my final word on that matter:
I agree with the original proposal.
Greetings |
I second to that. |
_________________
They that will not be counseled, cannot be helped. If you do not hear reason she will rap you on the knuckles hit and sting like a brass knuckles.
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Post subject:
Posted: Oct 23, 2011 - 03:09 PM
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Citizen
Joined: Feb 28, 2010
Posts: 77
Status: Offline
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I think this is a good idea and fair. It does not really take anything away from any players and enhances the overall entertainment value of the came. Except for obsessive compulsives, there is little if any entertainment value in clicking until you hear the little horn. As long as repairing does not count towards success, and you can only repair items that require 1/2 the skill needed to craft them. The reality is anyone can pretty much buy or trade anything either at the shops or with other players.
Think about it, do you remember the best hunt you were on or the best 6 hours you spent blacksmithing, mining and lumber jacking? |
_________________
And if by some chance an honest man like yourself made enemies they would become my enemies. And then, they would fear you.
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Post subject:
Posted: Oct 23, 2011 - 08:13 PM
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Citizen
Joined: Feb 28, 2010
Posts: 77
Status: Offline
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| Or you can put a cap on the repair. If you only have half the level to craft it, you can only repair it to +5. You have only half the blacksmithing knowledge so you can only repair it to half decent level. |
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